Older photos that were scanned. Just for sharing.

Now, if I can figure out how to post an image here...









All for now.

Cheers

Awesome weights Owen... how large is that beautiful Mon Duck?
I have never seen one larger than 20 tical. The Gear's don't identify any of them to be larger in photographs either.
Do the 1/2 Viss and 1 Viss Ducks have handles? ~Jack

Yup. It is also 20 tical. I consider it one of my museum quality pieces, and one of my very favorites. I bought it in a tiny shop near Pindaya in the fall of 1995. I knew it was a treasure the moment I saw it.

It never tarnishes, but shines as if were polished. I presume it is due to the purity of the tin in the alloy.

I've been told of larger duck pieces with handles, but have never seen one. Thus, I don't really believe it.

The patina on your Duck is amazing.
I have never seen any weights this shiny and fresh looking, (“un-circulated” in coin grading terminology), and over 400 years old!
I wonder if some weights were produced for everyday use, and some special weights made for religious purposes, or kept out of circulation just because they were so attractive. Possibly a foundry would issue limited edition weights that were never intended for use in the marketplace?

I have a few that are what I consider "museum grade", and several that have a patina like this duck. The shine is the metallurgy, itself. The tin content is high and the trace elements of silver almost zero. Most tin contains trace silver and, thus, tarnishes. A bronze high in tin but very low in silver doesn't oxidize. Thus, a high shine that doesn't go away.

As for master / mint standard weights, I have long understood that master sets were produced for the palace. I've seen some collections that had what I was told were such pieces. They tend to have small flourishes not seen on the circulated weights, and, of course, were in perfect condition. But, the records of such, along with other crucial records, were lost when the British burned the records archive during the capture of King Thibaw. This was apparently an accident, and it certainly fueled civil discord over successive generations. (Land holding records, titles, lineages, etc., were all lost -- in addition to such mundane things as many of the standard weights.)

Two Birds.jpg

Here is a photo of two round based birds with mouth appendages. I see some similar style weights in Case2[1].jpg
The smaller bird was covered in white paint (I removed with a toothpick) when I bought it. Both are a very silvery bronze and every groove and indentation looks to be filled with black substance that also looks like paint. They were bought from different sources at different times. No foundry mark or sign on either.
There are examples photographed in the Gear’s small La Na and Burma book, but not in the Earth to Heaven book of “royal weights”.
Any idea why paint would be applied to a weight, and where these birds originated?

The traders call these Ava birds and suggest 17th century. These are quite nice, and quite hard to find now. Yours are fine specimens!

Perhaps not all collectors agree, but I have taken brushes of various types to specimens that were just too dirty to be cleaned with a soft cloth. A few, I will admit, I have even used light metal brushes. I found that getting down to the actual metal did not bother the patina at all, but actually allowed the real patina to emerge. A few weeks exposed to normal air and the shine of brushing faded and the lovely patina of the metal became fully visible.

These two are very nice and will clean up very well. You'll be amazed by the quality of the metallurgy. This, of course, is my opinion, only. Some people think that they are more authentic left in whatever state in which you found them. I think a little TLC is very well rewarded.

Most, if not all, of the weights in those display cases were brushed clean. I've always been happy to have done so. That said, some I have left untouched and others (like that duck) simply never needed it.

I have one Shan bird that was dipped in laquer and then covered with gold leaf. Another is almost black and heavily coated with wax. It seems to have set where dripping candles above and below blackened and coated it. I've kept these unchanged, because I didn't think that they'd look any better if I dug below. (I really need to get a digi-cam to photo more of them.)

Again, this is just my opinion on the matter. I sure hope others chime in here, as well.

Thanks for the photos!

Yes, I saw this in your gallery. It’s quite unusual. There is a series that the traders all refer to as Mon weights into which this one might fit. They are not a Mon “style”, as in the Brahmany duck style, but were purported those made in the Mon communities in mid to late 19th century. They have simple line and, generally, are not ornate.

Of those that I own, none have foundry marks. I was told this is because the Mon communities did not submit to the palace foundry oversight and that these were used only within the Mon communities. Yours clearly has a foundry mark, so is odd.

Some would suggest it a replica, but I would reserve any judgment. It does not fit exactly into the grouping below, but shows some style similarities. I can't say as I've ever seen one quite like it. Certainly it is interesting.

Let me try to scan an old photo of a few of those I am referring to just for perspective.



more:

Hallo Owen,
the weights in your photo below can be found in the Arakan Yomas. Therefore I called them Arakan weights. I think they are made after the Burmese standard weights but resulted in a simpler shape. The elongated handle seems typical to me. Below you seeI a photo taken by a Burmese friend in 1981 with a very simple b/w film and badly developed. But it shows the essentials. It was near the town of An. The owner was not willing to sell them "because the grandmother has already used it". I classify them into the 19th century and maybe more recent.

Wonderful image. Thank you so much for posting it. You always leave me craving for more!

I apologize for coming in & out. I should be off at the weekend for a month in Bogale as a field coordinator for reconstruction. Doubt I’ll find any weights in the mud. Ha.

The image is wonderful, as noted. The beast, in particular, is peculiar. I have never seen a base like that. Were that presented to me by some trader, I’d say it was a copy. But, seen here in an image from 1981, that seems unlikely. Herr Hartmut, have you seen other beasts that looked like this, or had similar base?

I hope my longer list of conjectural questions gets some attention. What is it that we can collectively say about what we have learned (and are still learning)?

Owen

AVA BIRDS
I see on this page some beautiful special weights. You, mr. Owen called them "Ava birds", 17e century. I will show some simular birds in the first picture.
They are 318 and 65 grammes. Both have no foundry marks in front. Two head knobs.The patina is superior. Without question: bronze. And without doubt, they are old.
I also see them in the small Lan na / Burma book from Gear. You know more ??






BIRD (late 15e century)
This second picture is a superior in quality late 15e century (Gear) birdweight. It is 293 grammes with a foundrymark in front and has a beautiful greenish patina all over. Three head knobs.
Clearly I made the mistake with comparing these two styles as one ? But they look so simular !