Unusual Shan State Weights

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#1 | Unusual Shan State Weights datum

Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:28 pm

Hello all. I'm new to collecting Burmese weights and these two are the ones that got me started.

I bought these while visiting the Shan region, specifically Inle Lake. The seller I bought them from, gave me the distinct impression they were genuine. I'd seen others that were similar while in the area and liked the shape (I didn't know anything about "opium weights" yet and just wanted a souvenir).

They don't bear any verification marks � which I understand isn't unusual for more recent weights, especially from the provinces. They weigh 328g and 158g respectively (I don't have a more precise scale).

So, while I'm convinced (or have convinced myself) that these are the real-deal (I've seen and bought replicas), I wanted to ask if anyone has seen any others that are similar as I can't find this style in any books or other forums.

Thank you.
-Banning

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#2 | RE: Unusual Shan State Weights datum

Sat May 02, 2015 6:51 pm

Hartmutmollat -- are you still monitoring this site?
-B

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#3 | RE: Unusual Shan State Weights datum

Sat May 02, 2015 10:26 pm (Last edited: Sun May 03, 2015 10:27 am)

Hi Banning,
many thanks for posting these pictures of the two bronze birds, which could be Hintha weights from Shan-States, second half of the 19th century. But...

From my point of view it's a very important posting. It shows the high quality of the recent copies one can find rarely in Burma's antique shops but rather on Bangkok's Chatuchak and in the antique shops in Charoen Krung road as well.

The Karaweik-copies with the three-knobbed head crest, offered - let me say regularly - on eBay, are fortunately very ugly. Anyway, they find their collectors. But here you got the weights from the experts, copying the H4 bird weights almost as it should be (very good "kissing duck" copies are also available on JJ-market).

What is the reason why I put these bronze birds in the drawer titled "copy"?

1. Both birds show exactly the same decoration, same shape, same base. Virtually impossible to find an original set today, even a "couple" of 20 and 10 tical should be extremely rare.

2. Both birds show the same greenish patina.

3. It seems to me, that the birds have nearly round eyes instead ellipsoid.

4. The Shan-birds always have a verification mark. Only the last Burmese Hintha birds (H3B) mostly issued without it. But I'm not sure, if you look careful, you may find the scratching of the outline of a bird also on the base of your weights (front right).

5. The base has no decoration and both appears with strange defects on the bottom.

Anyway, they are not bad and I hope someone will find facts that contradict my opinion.

A group of four Shan weights. Your birds are in a similar style. By the way, please compare the feet. Always ends up at the front of the base.

fig. 1: a group of similar Shan bird weights, 10 tical (161 g, 159 g, 164 g, 160 g)

fig. 2: please take a look at the head crest and compare, anything different?

fig. 3: finally the bottom of the base

Three Shan-birds show the verification mark in different size and style, the base decoration with horizontal lines, ellipsoid shape of the eyes and different but beautiful patina.

fig. 4: verification mark: outline of a bird

fig. 5: base decoration with horizontal lines, different tail, neck, wing decoration

fig. 6: by the way: 5 tical birds (87 g, 83 g, 82 g)

fig. 7: the bottom of the base

fig. 8: Shan birds with 10 tical, bird mark and one 6-rayed star as well

fig. 9: please see also here the decoration and shape of the base, tail, neck, head crest, eyes etc.

fig. 10: 10 tical weights (161 g, 159 g, 159g, 161g)

fig. 11: and again: the bottom of the base

fig. 12: finally a group of various Hintha weights from Shan states, 20 tical (320 g, 318 g, 325 g, 325 g, 323 g, 308 g)

I'm afraid, that I wrote the instruction to improve the copies!

Comments are welcome.
Thanks in advance.
Michael

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#4 | RE: Unusual Shan State Weights datum

Sun May 03, 2015 3:41 am

WOW. Michael, thank you for the terrific reply! Also, the references you provided were exactly the type that I was looking for.

It's true, because of the lack of a verification mark or significant wear along the edges of the weight, I frankly expected it to be a provincial reproduction that may actually have been used � I read that this was common as the English increasingly took control of the country. I happen to be in Germany this week (Berlin) and don't have my references on hand, otherwise I might try to find the specific article/book I'm talking about.

Also, the hard geometry of the bird's form was both attractive and suspicious to me. (If you click on my pictures, they're quite high res � and completely lack any bird marking.)

I'm going to spend more time with your pictures when I get back home and perhaps ask more questions. I just wanted to say thank you for the comprehensive response.

Thank you and kind regards,
Banning

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#5 | RE: Unusual Shan State Weights datum

Tue May 19, 2015 2:09 am (Last edited: Fri May 22, 2015 9:15 am)

Hi Banning,
in general I follow Michael's excellent statement, and for 99,9% he is right. Only from the photos I cannot decide if these birds are genuine or not..
On the other hand I cannot definitely exclude that these birds are genuine. In that case you have to suggest that they have special forms made in small numbers somewhere in the Shan States.
I have a single genuine 20 Tical H4A-weight with a plain base without grooves and verification mark and showing round eyes. However, its design is divergent from your birds.
Maybe the puzzle will be solved in future!
Best regards
hartmutmollat

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#6 | RE: Unusual Shan State Weights datum

Tue May 19, 2015 2:13 am

Hello Hartmut,
Thank you for your follow-up! Very much appreciated. With so many "typical" designs available, it's actually a pleasure to discover potential genuine articles that deviate from the norm.
Kind regards,
Banning

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"5 TICALS" non-animal-shaped weight � � Nandi Bull, 10 tical

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